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	<title>Comments on: Lovesick Gods of Heaven and Earth</title>
	<link>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2006/07/05/lovesick-gods-of-heaven-and-earth-2/</link>
	<description>Embrace Heritage Skills from Your Tribal Past</description>
	<pubDate>Wed,  7 Jan 2009 01:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Willem</title>
		<link>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2006/07/05/lovesick-gods-of-heaven-and-earth-2/#comment-23909</link>
		<dc:creator>Willem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2006/07/05/lovesick-gods-of-heaven-and-earth-2/#comment-23909</guid>
		<description>PO-
It surprises me that you say the Norse gods did/do not seek to conquer the giants. As I understand it, the Gods represent order and the Giants chaos, and rather than the good/evil dichotomy, this opposition qualifies much of the mythology, and certainly at Ragnarok this all comes to a head. Loki, as a giant himself, seems a likely candidate to lead the armies opposing the forces of Order.

As far as issues of mixed heritage, many other farming mythology systems spring to mind that honor the rather odd part-giant heritage of the farming Gods - in the greek, Gaia had Titans and Cyclopes for children, from among whom sprung Zeus.

I wish to honor this belief system (assuming you believe in it yourself), and at the same time I have the need to trace a history of "what happened to us".

Somehow, around the world, we changed from relationships to actual beings we called family, to relationships with Gods "of" things (and then onto a single god "of" everything). We went from the "things" themselves, to those that control the "thing". No one would confuse Thor, as "the god of lightning", with lightning itself.

In original animism, as practiced to this very day, animists personalize the phenomenon, not the "boss" of the phenomenon. Lightning people, not Thor's will.

I don't suggest that the Norse religion doesn't "work", doesn't create a fulfilling relationship with the land of its own kind. 

However, many peoples around the world had similar belief systems (similar gods, similar issues at play in the mythology), and where they used to live we now see many deserts and clearcuts. 

I personally see this as an indicator that farming religions may not address fundamental issues that one needs to meet to have a sustainable relationship with the land, as farming got us into our present mess to begin with. I appreciate your points, but though you say Norse religion doesn't desire to conquer, claim, or control it, I look at the history of the landbase and I see much conquering, claiming, and controlling of the land done by those same peoples.

I can't possibly say that modern forms of paganism (often called neopaganism) haven't addressed these things. I simply don't know, as I don't know how I'd evaluate that.

This piece I wrote on Lovesick Gods of Heaven and Earth points to a history of our relationship, no more. The future we make ourselves.

In any case, thank you for your comment and the points you've made. I certainly would rather find commonalities with those who respect and cherish the Earth, than pick at differences. This makes it difficult for me to have this conversation, as I receive great comfort and strength from the realization this piece represents, and at the same time I enjoy these conversations and support other points of view.

Thanks again PO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PO-<br />
It surprises me that you say the Norse gods did/do not seek to conquer the giants. As I understand it, the Gods represent order and the Giants chaos, and rather than the good/evil dichotomy, this opposition qualifies much of the mythology, and certainly at Ragnarok this all comes to a head. Loki, as a giant himself, seems a likely candidate to lead the armies opposing the forces of Order.</p>
<p>As far as issues of mixed heritage, many other farming mythology systems spring to mind that honor the rather odd part-giant heritage of the farming Gods - in the greek, Gaia had Titans and Cyclopes for children, from among whom sprung Zeus.</p>
<p>I wish to honor this belief system (assuming you believe in it yourself), and at the same time I have the need to trace a history of &#8220;what happened to us&#8221;.</p>
<p>Somehow, around the world, we changed from relationships to actual beings we called family, to relationships with Gods &#8220;of&#8221; things (and then onto a single god &#8220;of&#8221; everything). We went from the &#8220;things&#8221; themselves, to those that control the &#8220;thing&#8221;. No one would confuse Thor, as &#8220;the god of lightning&#8221;, with lightning itself.</p>
<p>In original animism, as practiced to this very day, animists personalize the phenomenon, not the &#8220;boss&#8221; of the phenomenon. Lightning people, not Thor&#8217;s will.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t suggest that the Norse religion doesn&#8217;t &#8220;work&#8221;, doesn&#8217;t create a fulfilling relationship with the land of its own kind. </p>
<p>However, many peoples around the world had similar belief systems (similar gods, similar issues at play in the mythology), and where they used to live we now see many deserts and clearcuts. </p>
<p>I personally see this as an indicator that farming religions may not address fundamental issues that one needs to meet to have a sustainable relationship with the land, as farming got us into our present mess to begin with. I appreciate your points, but though you say Norse religion doesn&#8217;t desire to conquer, claim, or control it, I look at the history of the landbase and I see much conquering, claiming, and controlling of the land done by those same peoples.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t possibly say that modern forms of paganism (often called neopaganism) haven&#8217;t addressed these things. I simply don&#8217;t know, as I don&#8217;t know how I&#8217;d evaluate that.</p>
<p>This piece I wrote on Lovesick Gods of Heaven and Earth points to a history of our relationship, no more. The future we make ourselves.</p>
<p>In any case, thank you for your comment and the points you&#8217;ve made. I certainly would rather find commonalities with those who respect and cherish the Earth, than pick at differences. This makes it difficult for me to have this conversation, as I receive great comfort and strength from the realization this piece represents, and at the same time I enjoy these conversations and support other points of view.</p>
<p>Thanks again PO.</p>
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		<title>By: PO</title>
		<link>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2006/07/05/lovesick-gods-of-heaven-and-earth-2/#comment-23907</link>
		<dc:creator>PO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2006/07/05/lovesick-gods-of-heaven-and-earth-2/#comment-23907</guid>
		<description>The Norse gods did not conquer nor seek to conquer the giants.  They were not destroyers. They did hold sway over the world, as the term 'god' indicates.

Thor (The most revered Norse god) was part giant, Skadi, the huntress and winter goddess was a giant married to Njord, of the sea, and then Ullr, of the sky... half the pantheon is made up of giants/partial giants.

The gods worked with giants as much as they fought. In the final battle of Ragnarok, Loki, a god, leads the armies opposing the Aesir and Vanir. Thor (a half giant) slays and is slain by Jormungandr, another half god, half giant, son of Loki. 

A belief in Norse animism continues to this day in rural area's, with "land wights". Everything has a spirit(wight).

It is an earth based belief working with natural processes, by which even the gods are bound. 
Under it's hand the wild Aurochs was hunted as the Bison were in north america. Under later rule, this great animal became extinct because of profit motive and export.

Norse religion explains the world, but does not conquer it, claim to own it, or control it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Norse gods did not conquer nor seek to conquer the giants.  They were not destroyers. They did hold sway over the world, as the term &#8216;god&#8217; indicates.</p>
<p>Thor (The most revered Norse god) was part giant, Skadi, the huntress and winter goddess was a giant married to Njord, of the sea, and then Ullr, of the sky&#8230; half the pantheon is made up of giants/partial giants.</p>
<p>The gods worked with giants as much as they fought. In the final battle of Ragnarok, Loki, a god, leads the armies opposing the Aesir and Vanir. Thor (a half giant) slays and is slain by Jormungandr, another half god, half giant, son of Loki. </p>
<p>A belief in Norse animism continues to this day in rural area&#8217;s, with &#8220;land wights&#8221;. Everything has a spirit(wight).</p>
<p>It is an earth based belief working with natural processes, by which even the gods are bound.<br />
Under it&#8217;s hand the wild Aurochs was hunted as the Bison were in north america. Under later rule, this great animal became extinct because of profit motive and export.</p>
<p>Norse religion explains the world, but does not conquer it, claim to own it, or control it.</p>
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		<title>By: Religion Vs. Rewilding &#124; Urban Scout: Rewilding Cascadia</title>
		<link>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2006/07/05/lovesick-gods-of-heaven-and-earth-2/#comment-23764</link>
		<dc:creator>Religion Vs. Rewilding &#124; Urban Scout: Rewilding Cascadia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 02:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2006/07/05/lovesick-gods-of-heaven-and-earth-2/#comment-23764</guid>
		<description>[...] as our parents, not &#8216;rulers&#8217; in the same sense that we see hierarchy. They make up an extension of our family. Some gods live as our parents, &#8220;father sun,&#8221; while some live as our siblings; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] as our parents, not &#8216;rulers&#8217; in the same sense that we see hierarchy. They make up an extension of our family. Some gods live as our parents, &#8220;father sun,&#8221; while some live as our siblings; [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: The College of Mythic Cartography &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Attack of the 50ft Woman</title>
		<link>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2006/07/05/lovesick-gods-of-heaven-and-earth-2/#comment-12283</link>
		<dc:creator>The College of Mythic Cartography &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Attack of the 50ft Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2006/07/05/lovesick-gods-of-heaven-and-earth-2/#comment-12283</guid>
		<description>[...] Remind you of anything? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Remind you of anything? [&#8230;]</p>
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