Comments on: Rewilding Adulthood http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2008/05/08/rewilding-adulthood/ Revitalizing Riddles, Mythic Story, Family, Village and Land. Tue, 7 Sep 2010 12:57:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Billy Metcalf http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2008/05/08/rewilding-adulthood/#comment-23835 Billy Metcalf Sat, 10 May 2008 21:51:29 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2008/05/08/rewilding-adulthood/#comment-23835 I was talking to my friend Bob and something he reminded me of is that often times people like him don't have crowds of people hanging around, because he expects them to do their part. Many people are looking for enablers, not someone is clear about what is their responsibility and what is not. I was talking to my friend Bob and something he reminded me of is that often times people like him don’t have crowds of people hanging around, because he expects them to do their part. Many people are looking for enablers, not someone is clear about what is their responsibility and what is not.

]]> By: Willem http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2008/05/08/rewilding-adulthood/#comment-23830 Willem Sat, 10 May 2008 06:39:38 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2008/05/08/rewilding-adulthood/#comment-23830 I really appreciate that you see the value in this piece that I do. Depth, integrity, commitment, of a real and sustainable kind, the sign of a skilled adult. This has set of little explosions inside me that continue to reverberate. It feels like the most important thing in Rewilding to me right now. I wish I could hear more folks chime in on the conversation about it. If you hadn't commented I'd probably start wandering the streets, grabbing strangers by the collar, and yelling at them, "don't you SEE!? real ADULTHOOD means COMMITMENT! Real COMMITMENT means self-knowledge and CLARITY!". Haha. Fortunately... Thanks for giving me much needed feedback, Billy. p.s. As far as the podcasts, some of the last few did really touch on how I view major parts of this issue, definitely. Good luck with the flash-drive strategy. I wish I could help. I really appreciate that you see the value in this piece that I do. Depth, integrity, commitment, of a real and sustainable kind, the sign of a skilled adult. This has set of little explosions inside me that continue to reverberate.

It feels like the most important thing in Rewilding to me right now. I wish I could hear more folks chime in on the conversation about it.

If you hadn’t commented I’d probably start wandering the streets, grabbing strangers by the collar, and yelling at them, “don’t you SEE!? real ADULTHOOD means COMMITMENT! Real COMMITMENT means self-knowledge and CLARITY!”. Haha. Fortunately…

Thanks for giving me much needed feedback, Billy.

p.s. As far as the podcasts, some of the last few did really touch on how I view major parts of this issue, definitely. Good luck with the flash-drive strategy. I wish I could help.

]]> By: Billy Metcalf http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2008/05/08/rewilding-adulthood/#comment-23829 Billy Metcalf Sat, 10 May 2008 05:48:07 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2008/05/08/rewilding-adulthood/#comment-23829 I've read this piece of yours quite a few times now Willem. You are really getting to some important things here. In my own life I am realizing how important commitments have been for me. The focus of my life in recent years has been about depth. The willingness and ability to make commitments has been the vehicle to take me deeper into the places I want/need to go. Like you say when you are with a group of people who can commit with integrity, it totally rocks. Another thought. This is what parenting is about. Some can make the commitment and back it up in every way. Some struggle with that. Some just are not able. Not talking about finances or that kind of stuff. More about remembering what the priorities of a parent must be. Thanks for posting this Willem. PS. I wish I had high speed internet so I could hear your podcasts. This last one sounds like something I would enjoy. Maybe I can load it onto a flash drive at the library or something. I’ve read this piece of yours quite a few times now Willem. You are really getting to some important things here. In my own life I am realizing how important commitments have been for me.
The focus of my life in recent years has been about depth. The willingness and ability to make commitments has been the vehicle to take me deeper into the places I want/need to go.
Like you say when you are with a group of people who can commit with integrity, it totally rocks.

Another thought. This is what parenting is about. Some can make the commitment and back it up in every way. Some struggle with that. Some just are not able.
Not talking about finances or that kind of stuff. More about remembering what the priorities of a parent must be.

Thanks for posting this Willem.

PS. I wish I had high speed internet so I could hear your podcasts. This last one sounds like something I would enjoy. Maybe I can load it onto a flash drive at the library or something.

]]> By: Willem http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2008/05/08/rewilding-adulthood/#comment-23826 Willem Fri, 09 May 2008 01:00:19 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2008/05/08/rewilding-adulthood/#comment-23826 Thanks a million for this piece of writing, Billy. I love how much Bob really clarifies the "clarity" piece. I can really see how the tobacco, as a tangible symbol of the accord (setting aside for a moment all the deep meaning and tradition behind it), makes it easier to wrap one's head around the request under discussion, and its status (agreed, no longer valid or appropriate, or otherwise). Thanks a million for this piece of writing, Billy. I love how much Bob really clarifies the “clarity” piece. I can really see how the tobacco, as a tangible symbol of the accord (setting aside for a moment all the deep meaning and tradition behind it), makes it easier to wrap one’s head around the request under discussion, and its status (agreed, no longer valid or appropriate, or otherwise).

]]> By: Billy Metcalf http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2008/05/08/rewilding-adulthood/#comment-23824 Billy Metcalf Thu, 08 May 2008 23:20:01 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2008/05/08/rewilding-adulthood/#comment-23824 I like this a lot Willem. This reminds me of some of the ways that my elders operate. If you don't mind this is a short piece that I wrote for a class about one of my friends and elders. He has had a big influence on me and the path that I am on. I've edited out some parts that referred to class material. A person I have been fortunate to have in my life is one of my elders and mentors. I will call him Bob. He has always demonstrated very clear communication since the first time I met him. His own communication is very direct. He does no “beating around the bush”. He is a spiritual person and makes use of some traditional “devices” to keep his communication clear, particularly when it is of a spiritual nature. If a person approaches him for help, he might listen to what they have to say, then, if he thinks he can help them and they haven’t already given him tobacco, he might ask them to bring him some tobacco. With the tobacco he will ask the person questions to clarify exactly what they are asking him to do. Only when the person can articulate exactly what is expected of him will he say one way or another if he can help them. If he can’t, then he may just say that, or he may suggest someone else to go to. Either way he will give the tobacco back. Once he is clear on what he is being asked to do and has chosen to help, he accepts the tobacco and is committed to doing exactly what he has agreed to do for the person. If at some time it becomes apparent that the person who has asked for help does not like the arrangement and is no longer willing to work with the kind of help that Bob has to offer, he will give the tobacco back and all obligations will be considered taken care of. In a way it serves as a kind of contract. Both parties involved clearly state what their part is, what they expect of the other and what they will do. This traditional way of asking for help ties in very well to the subject of precision and vagueness that was discussed in class. By asking the person seeking help to clearly articulate exactly what they need help with and what they are asking Bob to do in order to help, he is already helping them to sort out their own priorities and commitments. He is requiring them to accept responsibility for their part in things. He is also looking after his own interest as well. This way of doing things insures that he does not get sucked into a vague, open ended situation, with new expectations coming up as the situation evolves. In my experience with Bob he has no problem letting people know they have reached the limits of what was agreed to with the tobacco. My relationship with Bob has progressed to the point of the two of us being good buddies now. Even so, I still bring him tobacco when I am asking for help that requires a commitment from either or both of us. He has given me tobacco in a few situations too. It is refreshing to have interactions with someone where everything is clearly laid out and there are no surprises or hidden agendas. I am not quite as good at making sure everything is spelled out as Bob is. Mostly I have been in the position of accepting tobacco from Bob and he was pretty clear about why he was giving it to me so I didn’t have to question him much about it. He has been a good example for me. Even in situations that don’t involve the offering of tobacco the practice of clarifying needs and expectations is extremely helpful. It brings things out of the realm of abstraction and into a place where help can be given. I like this a lot Willem. This reminds me of some of the ways that my elders operate. If you don’t mind this is a short piece that I wrote for a class about one of my friends and elders. He has had a big influence on me and the path that I am on. I’ve edited out some parts that referred to class material.

A person I have been fortunate to have in my life is one of my elders and mentors. I will call him Bob. He has always demonstrated very clear communication since the first time I met him. His own communication is very direct. He does no “beating around the bush”. He is a spiritual person and makes use of some traditional “devices” to keep his communication clear, particularly when it is of a spiritual nature. If a person approaches him for help, he might listen to what they have to say, then, if he thinks he can help them and they haven’t already given him tobacco, he might ask them to bring him some tobacco.

With the tobacco he will ask the person questions to clarify exactly what they are asking him to do. Only when the person can articulate exactly what is expected of him will he say one way or another if he can help them. If he can’t, then he may just say that, or he may suggest someone else to go to. Either way he will give the tobacco back. Once he is clear on what he is being asked to do and has chosen to help, he accepts the tobacco and is committed to doing exactly what he has agreed to do for the person. If at some time it becomes apparent that the person who has asked for help does not like the arrangement and is no longer willing to work with the kind of help that Bob has to offer, he will give the tobacco back and all obligations will be considered taken care of.
In a way it serves as a kind of contract. Both parties involved clearly state what their part is, what they expect of the other and what they will do.

This traditional way of asking for help ties in very well to the subject of precision and vagueness that was discussed in class. By asking the person seeking help to clearly articulate exactly what they need help with and what they are asking Bob to do in order to help, he is already helping them to sort out their own priorities and commitments. He is requiring them to accept responsibility for their part in things. He is also looking after his own interest as well. This way of doing things insures that he does not get sucked into a vague, open ended situation, with new expectations coming up as the situation evolves. In my experience with Bob he has no problem letting people know they have reached the limits of what was agreed to with the tobacco.

My relationship with Bob has progressed to the point of the two of us being good buddies now. Even so, I still bring him tobacco when I am asking for help that requires a commitment from either or both of us. He has given me tobacco in a few situations too. It is refreshing to have interactions with someone where everything is clearly laid out and there are no surprises or hidden agendas. I am not quite as good at making sure everything is spelled out as Bob is. Mostly I have been in the position of accepting tobacco from Bob and he was pretty clear about why he was giving it to me so I didn’t have to question him much about it. He has been a good example for me.

Even in situations that don’t involve the offering of tobacco the practice of clarifying needs and expectations is extremely helpful. It brings things out of the realm of abstraction and into a place where help can be given.

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