Arguments, Disgust, Reason, and Remedy
I don’t know if the following will make any sense to anybody. I’ve begun to put some pieces together for myself, but I might not yet articulate it well enough for others. On the off chance that it clicks for someone, I’ll go ahead and take the risk.
I want to underscore a point I made in the last article concerning disgust at civilization. To articulate an argument against something insane, means that you can encompass it in your logical system. That means that you dignify it as one of the reasoned choices available to a member of your culture, however much you argue against it. By arguing against it, you say a reasonable person may choose it - because, you want to change this person’s mind by using a reasoned argument. You see?
Even now, culturally, we have things that you “just don’t do”, no explanation needed, and we have things that we haven’t made our minds up about.
Furthermore, a sane and life-affirming choice needs no logical support - you can feel the evidence with your body’s senses. Only abstractions need logical support. The more removed the abstraction, the more support needed.
Once you’ve exposed a life-denying choice for all to see, to argue further in the face of someone choosing it means you consider their choice reasonable. Which means that you leave the door open for you to choose it, someday, as a reasonable thing.
To reject something, without explanation or articulation, marks a step into a world where you can move directly into remedy, if you yourself end up choosing it. At that point, everyone in your micro-culture knows you “just don’t do that”. And in rewilding, everyone knows that punishment doesn’t address the actual issues at stake. So everyone moves directly into remedy.
The more of your rewilding culture that, once accepted on the basis of life-affirming evidence, you no longer articulate in a reasoned argument, the stronger it becomes. It, in fact, exits the vulnerable arena of american secular puritanism, a mental battlezone where your values and choices lay open to constant debate on whether they qualify as a “one right way”, amidst personal accusations of hypocrisy and so on.
As long as you engage in debate about the “personhood” of a tree, for example, you leave open the notion that a sane person could see the “itness” of a tree.
If you live a good life, people in search of a good life will flock to it. If you argue for a good life, people in search of an argument about what makes a good life will flock to it.
May 10th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
“If you live a good life, people in search of a good life will flock to it. If you argue for a good life, people in search of an argument about what makes a good life will flock to it.”
OOOHH Willem, I think you are shedding the civilized mind, whole layers at a time recently.
Something that happens to my wife and me fairly often actually is people will approach us and say, “I don’t know what it is, but you seem to have something that I want.”
It sure ain’t a fancy house or expensive clothes or a sporty car.
May 10th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Haha. Thanks Billy. So true, to all of that.
May 10th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
I think the key, though, comes when you say, “Once you’ve exposed a life-denying choice for all to see.” Have we done that? Has everyone seen that? I can tell you now, if you had simply acted with disgust and tried to shame me back in my good Catholic days, when I felt I had seen no such exposure, I would not have responded well. That would not shame me to reject that life-denying choice; it would convince me that rewilding only matters to stuck-up jerks.
I agree there comes a time for this, but I know plenty of people who still have made their choices primarily out of ignorance, rather than simply refusing to accept the intense vitality of the world.
May 10th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Oh god, yes.
I worried about posting this for exactly that reason: this directly follows from the “Mr. Yuk” post, which delineates the three kinds of people, and how to treat them, according to my current confidence.
Although I may indeed change my mind. I feel some other layer brewing here…
In any case, as far as the “people in search of an argument about what makes a good life”, I would feel good about making two useful categories out of those people: those who search for an argument because they would rather talk than change, and those who search for an argument because they desperately want someone to give them permission to live a life worth living.
May 11th, 2008 at 12:04 am
A thought about this from the side of me that tends more towards a harder line.
We are dealing with addicts here. The information is there for people to make decisions. When they get to a point where they are ready (rock bottom?) they will come. I can’t make them do anything they aren’t ready to do. I think any university educated person that is “buying in” is making a concious decision to do that. If ignorance means they are ignoring what is all around them, then yeah they’re ignorant,,, by choice.
I’m working with some teens now. These are the ones who are falling through the cracks in society’s floor. The kids I’m working with and their families have never seen anything like the “good life” that mainstream society has to offer. Their ideas of alternative lifestyles involve alcohol, drugs and violence and likely jail. I want to help them see that there are other options besides what’s avaiable to them from the trickle down.
May 11th, 2008 at 12:50 am
Billy, do you think that some “ignorant by choice” folks could use some help to cross that line, someone to hold their hand as they abandon their old world? I wonder if some folks just don’t have the “courage” to do it alone, and the words of a voice speaking with authority in a familiar language (such as Jason’s) help them to take those crucial steps.
I agree, really, that readiness plays the biggest part in all of this. I don’t even bother talking to folks still enjoying civilization (about these issues, I mean). Why do they need me? To rain on their parade? But for folks casting about, unclear on why they feel so miserable, I feel like I can offer one route to address their need for help.
I don’t know whether your “dealing with addicts here” comment applies to your current job, or to members of civilization, but I’ll assume the double meaning as intended. It really strikes to the heart of the situation. I continue to cast off a variety of addictions related to my history with civilization, ways I use to dull and cope with my remaining relationship with civ.
May 11th, 2008 at 7:32 am
Yes, I meant all of us as the addicts. It’s the same with any addicts I think. Lifelines may have been cast out all around us, but many of us will wait till we are going under to reach out for one. So when they see that I’m not taking the lifeline when they throw it out, should they just reel it back in and sail away? I hope not.
Above, I said the part of me that tends toward the harder line.
I’m working on a more compassionate side in recent years. I have opted out to an extent that not a lot of people have, now I’ve bought back in, selectively, in ways that I have chosen, so that I can do the work I have to do. In that process, I’ve gotten hooked into things like staying up late, watching videos and posting on internet forums
The lifelines that work for addicts, like AA and treatment centers and counseling, all depend on the addict seeking them out and being ready. The proactive part is creating awareness of their existence.
May 11th, 2008 at 7:37 am
PS, this is a great discussion Willem. Thank you very much for this one. I’m just really thrilled about what you’ve been putting out there for us in the last little while.
May 11th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
“Furthermore, sane and life-affirming choice needs no logical support - you can feel the evidence with your body’s senses. Only abstractions need logical support. The more removed the abstraction, the more support needed.
Awe…I like this. Thank you for going ahead and posting this post. What clarity this just added to my pot and gave me. Thank you.
May 11th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
I have to quote this again because it really stood out for me too:
“If you live a good life, people in search of a good life will flock to it. If you argue for a good life, people in search of an argument about what makes a good life will flock to it.”
Willem this is my quote of the week, this is wow.