Comments on: E-Prime and the Imperialist Razor, Part II http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/ Revitalizing Riddles, Mythic Story, Family, Village and Land. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:41:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Willem http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/#comment-24578 Willem Thu, 05 Mar 2009 22:27:59 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/#comment-24578 You just made my head explode. I shake your hand, sir. You just made my head explode.

I shake your hand, sir.

]]> By: Billy http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/#comment-24577 Billy Thu, 05 Mar 2009 22:25:26 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/#comment-24577 Yes. Could we say that if we include "the drink" in our family or community then we must deal with the fact that this member of our community repeatedly causes problems for those who have intimate relations with it, and also for the bigger family. So if "the drink" continues to play this kind of destructive role then we will have to address that? Yes. Could we say that if we include “the drink” in our family or community then we must deal with the fact that this member of our community repeatedly causes problems for those who have intimate relations with it, and also for the bigger family. So if “the drink” continues to play this kind of destructive role then we will have to address that?

]]> By: Willem http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/#comment-24575 Willem Thu, 05 Mar 2009 20:16:34 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/#comment-24575 For me, this whole series of articles focus on changing cultural context. You, as a person inheriting a culture of disassociation (as have I), have a sincere concern about remedying this denial. So you say, "personal responsibility". In the context of this culture, your solution makes tremendous sense, and has the power to change someone's life. But this doesn't change the culture of disassociation; it just teaches you how to cope with the madness of it. I want to change the culture of disassociation itself. Not by blaming the drink for my problems, but by piece by piece beginning to relate to other human and non-human people in a life-affirming way. Whatever that means for me, I'll discover; for others, they'll need to figure it out themselves. And if we disagree, then we have to work that out between us, as fellow in-group members, or as different peoples who have the very real option of starting a war between them. This we want to avoid if at all possible. But for that reason alone we work things out, I think. If from different peoples, the carrot, or the stick? And if identifying as belonging to the same in-group, adapting our identity to include each other, or facing expulsion from the group (just as abominable as the option of war!). Does that makes sense? For me, this whole series of articles focus on changing cultural context.

You, as a person inheriting a culture of disassociation (as have I), have a sincere concern about remedying this denial. So you say, “personal responsibility”. In the context of this culture, your solution makes tremendous sense, and has the power to change someone’s life.

But this doesn’t change the culture of disassociation; it just teaches you how to cope with the madness of it.

I want to change the culture of disassociation itself. Not by blaming the drink for my problems, but by piece by piece beginning to relate to other human and non-human people in a life-affirming way. Whatever that means for me, I’ll discover; for others, they’ll need to figure it out themselves.

And if we disagree, then we have to work that out between us, as fellow in-group members, or as different peoples who have the very real option of starting a war between them. This we want to avoid if at all possible. But for that reason alone we work things out, I think. If from different peoples, the carrot, or the stick? And if identifying as belonging to the same in-group, adapting our identity to include each other, or facing expulsion from the group (just as abominable as the option of war!).

Does that makes sense?

]]> By: Billy http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/#comment-24574 Billy Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:29:47 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/#comment-24574 This may be my cultural conditioning asking this. If we accept "the drink made me do it" when someone hurts another person, where does personal responsibilty come in? There have been and still are many rape cases and manslaughter cases that have heard this used as a defence. "I was drunk and didn't know what I was doing" was accepted and the person got off. If this is just one aspect of the picture of what happened I can accept that but to let a person out from under the responsibilty for hurting or killing based on that is hard for me to go along with. I can see it as one part of the story that must be included, as long as responsibilty for that is embraced. This may be my cultural conditioning asking this. If we accept “the drink made me do it” when someone hurts another person, where does personal responsibilty come in?

There have been and still are many rape cases and manslaughter cases that have heard this used as a defence. “I was drunk and didn’t know what I was doing” was accepted and the person got off.

If this is just one aspect of the picture of what happened I can accept that but to let a person out from under the responsibilty for hurting or killing based on that is hard for me to go along with. I can see it as one part of the story that must be included, as long as responsibilty for that is embraced.

]]> By: The College of Mythic Cartography » Blog Archive » Language Means Directed Attentions http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/#comment-24556 The College of Mythic Cartography » Blog Archive » Language Means Directed Attentions Mon, 02 Mar 2009 06:23:09 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/#comment-24556 [...] Idiom can impact this too. You don’t always need words, sometimes you just need idiom to keep an idea alive. Our replacement idiom for frith, however, pales in comparision: “blood is thicker than water”. I don’t entirely know what that means, actually. However, think of the Gypsy Roma and their animate idiom towards killer cars, water, and electricity. [...] […] Idiom can impact this too. You don’t always need words, sometimes you just need idiom to keep an idea alive. Our replacement idiom for frith, however, pales in comparision: “blood is thicker than water”. I don’t entirely know what that means, actually. However, think of the Gypsy Roma and their animate idiom towards killer cars, water, and electricity. […]

]]> By: Willem http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/#comment-24533 Willem Fri, 27 Feb 2009 02:01:37 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/#comment-24533 Yes, thanks for recommending his book. I couldn't quite fit plenipotentiality in this particular article, but I expect it'll find a home here somewhere. The tweets do have a fun long name-ish quality. That reminds me-did you check out the link in my tumblr sidebar, <a href=http://liberatedyet.blogspot.com/2009/02/what-is-name-that-is-big-enough-to-hold.html rel="nofollow">What is the name that is big enough to hold your life?</a>. Some more examples about this way of thinking... Yes, thanks for recommending his book. I couldn’t quite fit plenipotentiality in this particular article, but I expect it’ll find a home here somewhere.

The tweets do have a fun long name-ish quality. That reminds me-did you check out the link in my tumblr sidebar, What is the name that is big enough to hold your life?. Some more examples about this way of thinking…

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/#comment-24532 Jason Godesky Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:33:57 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/02/26/e-prime-and-the-imperialist-razor-part-ii/#comment-24532 Brilliant! Wow. See, I knew good things would happen when you met Calvin Luther Martin. Tangentially, I just speculated on my Twitter stream this evening whether tweets, in the mode of Ong's notion of "secondary orality," might train us to form multi-word verbs. If you assume the username before a tweet (Facebook style), then very commonly, you see tweets like, "suchandusch watching a movie." It has a certain verb-like quality. It reminds me of Ong's concept of the internet & such creating a "secondary orality." Your discussion of verby-ness reminded me of that. But you've got something much more profound than that idle speculation here. Brilliant! Wow. See, I knew good things would happen when you met Calvin Luther Martin. Tangentially, I just speculated on my Twitter stream this evening whether tweets, in the mode of Ong’s notion of “secondary orality,” might train us to form multi-word verbs. If you assume the username before a tweet (Facebook style), then very commonly, you see tweets like, “suchandusch watching a movie.” It has a certain verb-like quality. It reminds me of Ong’s concept of the internet & such creating a “secondary orality.” Your discussion of verby-ness reminded me of that. But you’ve got something much more profound than that idle speculation here.

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