Comments on: Language Means Directed Attentions http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/ Revitalizing Riddles, Mythic Story, Family, Village and Land. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:00:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Willem http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24569 Willem Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:07:45 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24569 Oh. Oops. Of course. Well how about, "yay!" instead. :) Oh. Oops. Of course. Well how about, “yay!” instead. :)

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24568 Jason Godesky Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:48:23 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24568 Didn't mean to imply an either/or. In fact, I meant to suggest that singing new songs makes one of the best paths to speaking a new language. Didn’t mean to imply an either/or. In fact, I meant to suggest that singing new songs makes one of the best paths to speaking a new language.

]]> By: Willem http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24567 Willem Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:56:00 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24567 Bill: Yes! Exactly. I've had that experience to, where Story Games have given me language to talk about things that matter, that I've never had words for before. Werewolf actually has a lot of good stuff in it; I always wondered if former Earth First!ers wrote that. Your comment leads really well in Jason's... Jason: Beautiful - "song moves into speech". And human song echoes, and mimics the song of the Land. I especially like what you have to say about singing new Stories. Darmok and Jalad indeed! Though I don't see it as an either/or...I see it as a both/and. Both work on new language, and work on new story. I know that creating new language sounds awkward and difficult at times, but with the nuclear-powered (err...think the Sun, not bombs) language fluency game "Where are Your Keys?", learning language overnight becomes a snap. In fact, I don't see why a person wouldn't learn and know many, many languages - all the languages of their ancestry (for me, Danish, Irish, Tocharian), the languages of their modern geography (Spanish, Chinese, etc.), and the emerging languages of their anthropology of the future, helping them navigating through the cracks of the closed map into invisible worlds that we can't even "see" with English. Both/and! Both/and! I can't tell you how lucky I feel to live in this Dickensian world, the worst of times, and the best of times, for cultural change artists such as ourselves. We've lost everything, so now we need to gain it all back. Someone like me probably annoyed the hell out of Village elders when last I belonged to an intact indigenous culture. I always wanted to change everything, question everything. But now...boy do the ghosts of those old folks slap me on the back and thank me for doing the work that few others will do. Bill:

Yes! Exactly. I’ve had that experience to, where Story Games have given me language to talk about things that matter, that I’ve never had words for before. Werewolf actually has a lot of good stuff in it; I always wondered if former Earth First!ers wrote that. Your comment leads really well in Jason’s…

Jason:

Beautiful - “song moves into speech”. And human song echoes, and mimics the song of the Land. I especially like what you have to say about singing new Stories. Darmok and Jalad indeed! Though I don’t see it as an either/or…I see it as a both/and. Both work on new language, and work on new story.

I know that creating new language sounds awkward and difficult at times, but with the nuclear-powered (err…think the Sun, not bombs) language fluency game “Where are Your Keys?”, learning language overnight becomes a snap.

In fact, I don’t see why a person wouldn’t learn and know many, many languages - all the languages of their ancestry (for me, Danish, Irish, Tocharian), the languages of their modern geography (Spanish, Chinese, etc.), and the emerging languages of their anthropology of the future, helping them navigating through the cracks of the closed map into invisible worlds that we can’t even “see” with English.

Both/and! Both/and! I can’t tell you how lucky I feel to live in this Dickensian world, the worst of times, and the best of times, for cultural change artists such as ourselves. We’ve lost everything, so now we need to gain it all back. Someone like me probably annoyed the hell out of Village elders when last I belonged to an intact indigenous culture. I always wanted to change everything, question everything. But now…boy do the ghosts of those old folks slap me on the back and thank me for doing the work that few others will do.

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24563 Jason Godesky Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:36:41 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24563 Y'know, when I was off tonight ... errm, in Altoona, doing nothing in particular? Ahem. Anyway, I had occasion to dwell upon the nature of words and music. I derived great meaning from a story told in a language I don't speak. It reminded me of this thing that Tim Ingold wrote: "For all music, viewed in this light, is on its way to becoming speech, and there is no Rubicon beyond which we can say that it is unequivocally one thing rather than the other. Conversely, all speech has its origins in vocal music, that is in song." All words simply come from songs sung so often, we refer to them by a vocal gesture now. A path laid over and over again, with so many tracks that we can see it clearly now, because so many have gone that way before. To revivify a life in a new direction simply means striking up a new tune. I don't know if we need to jettison our current language and learn a new one; that may just make the whole thing harder. But if words come from songs sung over and over, then that seems to me to present a different solution. Rather than borrow someone else's songs to replace our own impoverished collection, we need to set about immediately singing new songs. I mean telling new stories. Just jam with them at first, and do it often enough and long enough that a tradition emerges, and in time, watch that tradition compress into a language. Before you know it, we'll stand like Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra. Y’know, when I was off tonight … errm, in Altoona, doing nothing in particular? Ahem. Anyway, I had occasion to dwell upon the nature of words and music. I derived great meaning from a story told in a language I don’t speak. It reminded me of this thing that Tim Ingold wrote: “For all music, viewed in this light, is on its way to becoming speech, and there is no Rubicon beyond which we can say that it is unequivocally one thing rather than the other. Conversely, all speech has its origins in vocal music, that is in song.” All words simply come from songs sung so often, we refer to them by a vocal gesture now. A path laid over and over again, with so many tracks that we can see it clearly now, because so many have gone that way before.

To revivify a life in a new direction simply means striking up a new tune. I don’t know if we need to jettison our current language and learn a new one; that may just make the whole thing harder. But if words come from songs sung over and over, then that seems to me to present a different solution. Rather than borrow someone else’s songs to replace our own impoverished collection, we need to set about immediately singing new songs. I mean telling new stories. Just jam with them at first, and do it often enough and long enough that a tradition emerges, and in time, watch that tradition compress into a language. Before you know it, we’ll stand like Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

]]> By: Bill Maxwell http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24562 Bill Maxwell Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:22:21 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24562 Funny (as in interesting) -- my friends who have played the game Werewolf (self included in this) adapted some of its language to describe things that normal English doesn't. From bane (small spirit that fills one with bad intent) to Wyrm (larger negative spiritual force) to caern, sept... nouns, I know, but they've been verbed among my friends as well. Hm. Best Bill Maxwell Funny (as in interesting) — my friends who have played the game Werewolf (self included in this) adapted some of its language to describe things that normal English doesn’t. From bane (small spirit that fills one with bad intent) to Wyrm (larger negative spiritual force) to caern, sept… nouns, I know, but they’ve been verbed among my friends as well. Hm.

Best

Bill Maxwell

]]> By: Willem http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24561 Willem Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:31:36 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24561 Fishbowl: Good luck - that project sounds like a wonderful adventure! Fishbowl:

Good luck - that project sounds like a wonderful adventure!

]]> By: Fishbowl http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24560 Fishbowl Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:42:37 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24560 Frith! I love it, I am going to look into this more. I am working on a vague consept, which I hope to be more defined as I go along, I call Sacred Etymology - which the basic jist thus far, is looking at the root and origin of the english language to reclaim a depth of meaning which may have been lost. Some of this even delves into the speculations of Proto-Indo-European language. Frith describes a sensibility I have used the word kinship for. Frith! I love it, I am going to look into this more. I am working on a vague consept, which I hope to be more defined as I go along, I call Sacred Etymology - which the basic jist thus far, is looking at the root and origin of the english language to reclaim a depth of meaning which may have been lost. Some of this even delves into the speculations of Proto-Indo-European language. Frith describes a sensibility I have used the word kinship for.

]]> By: Vicky http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24559 Vicky Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:06:26 +0000 http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/03/01/language-means-directed-attentions/#comment-24559 Speaking of Old English, have you seen this website? http://fred.wheatonma.edu/wordpressmu/mdrout Speaking of Old English, have you seen this website?

http://fred.wheatonma.edu/wordpressmu/mdrout

]]>