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	<title>Comments on: You Go First</title>
	<link>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/</link>
	<description>Revitalizing Riddles, Mythic Story, Family, Village and Land.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun,  1 Aug 2010 07:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Willem</title>
		<link>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24968</link>
		<dc:creator>Willem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24968</guid>
		<description>Lightworker-

&lt;blockquote&gt;But it is also very natural to become excited and childlike about a new-found and nearly magical tool that could change to world, so learning and talking about it is not necessarily a bad thing.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I so, so wish that we could share personal growth processes and models in an environment free of evangelism and "secular puritanism" - the ever-implied sales pitch and wagging finger. Like 'the invisible hand of the marketplace', they seem to hover over us and frame all our conversations, even when we don't wish it. (hmm...not my best metaphor. ;) )

I learn by teaching - I know this - I think pretty much anyone will accelerate their learning this way. But until we defang the hostile environment...I don't know what else to do but "go first", without discussing.

I guess if the animals and the trees receive the benefit of our discoveries first, they deserve it anyway. :)

Thanks for your comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lightworker-</p>
<blockquote><p>But it is also very natural to become excited and childlike about a new-found and nearly magical tool that could change to world, so learning and talking about it is not necessarily a bad thing.</p></blockquote>
<p>I so, so wish that we could share personal growth processes and models in an environment free of evangelism and &#8220;secular puritanism&#8221; - the ever-implied sales pitch and wagging finger. Like &#8216;the invisible hand of the marketplace&#8217;, they seem to hover over us and frame all our conversations, even when we don&#8217;t wish it. (hmm&#8230;not my best metaphor. <img src='http://www.mythic-cartography.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
<p>I learn by teaching - I know this - I think pretty much anyone will accelerate their learning this way. But until we defang the hostile environment&#8230;I don&#8217;t know what else to do but &#8220;go first&#8221;, without discussing.</p>
<p>I guess if the animals and the trees receive the benefit of our discoveries first, they deserve it anyway. <img src='http://www.mythic-cartography.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Thanks for your comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Willem</title>
		<link>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24967</link>
		<dc:creator>Willem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24967</guid>
		<description>Yes, in a sense, "going first" makes all personal growth models essentially "listening skills" - learning to manage yourself, stay connected in a conversation, and support the other person in telling their story, without concern for what they "should" say or do.

Glad to have you stop by, RaVen! I enjoyed your NVC story a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, in a sense, &#8220;going first&#8221; makes all personal growth models essentially &#8220;listening skills&#8221; - learning to manage yourself, stay connected in a conversation, and support the other person in telling their story, without concern for what they &#8220;should&#8221; say or do.</p>
<p>Glad to have you stop by, RaVen! I enjoyed your NVC story a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: RaVen</title>
		<link>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24956</link>
		<dc:creator>RaVen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24956</guid>
		<description>"After indulging this kind of arrogant mischief for quite a while, it finally occurred to me that correcting others behavior presented a massive wall to trust, understanding, and peace. In essence, by correcting them (without their request to do so), I spoke “violently” (in the parlance of NVC)."

********After studying NVC twice -- and  a few years of unsuccessful attempt to find buddies to practice NVC with in my own language (ASL)---most people I know refuse to indulge complex, lengthy new methods to improve communication rapport. I could feel myself forcing too hard and backed out fast with disappointment. How can I invite people to be more receptive? 

My initial approach when I tried to educate people about NVC -- they got very defensive -- I couldn't explain in just a few sentence of what the entire book presented. 

To prove myself that I could still learn by myself although I was still awkward at it --- little by little --- I found out that NVC is literally all about listening almost! I've always been a great listener -- what I noticed was that I was often a poor responder. Sometimes I was truly at loss of how to empathetically share a feedback without demeaning them. Touch is not enough and NVC does a great job of helping me stay attuned to others' feelings. I can now help people even find the right feelings for their situation. Before in HS I learned to parrot and that turned people off immediately. 

NVC truly works even if the other person has no clue or interest about it. Takes a lot of focus and remembering though to STAY inside the mentality of NVC --- and it was great seeing people's face light up with wonderment of "Wow, you really understand me!" 

I have successfully dealt with three individuals who could do nothing but verbally abuse me --- one person was my mother and it was astonishing to see her literally change in front of my eyes over three weeks period of a time.  She actually softened up and invited instead of demanded me to do such and such and showed child-like eagerness and softness actually permeate in our  psyche.  I am convinced now this works if carefully applied. 

The same happened to my brother - we almost terminated our sibling relationship during a very vehement argument - and suddenly I remembered to use NVC without appearing fakey-fake about it... and he, too, to my shock softened up. A few days later after thinking hard of over what I shared, he confessed things I never thought he'd say.  

Does it work every single time - I learned the hard way - no - found it horrifying when a very violent abusive person literally sucked the bones of NVC --- and no matter how much I used appropriate NVC ---didn't do a thing. So, every case is different  --  

I'd love for society to learn LISTENING SKILLS more --- something we all need to always strive to excel at and it's a lifelong process.  

I love traveling in that if I am immersed in a community --- I can gleefully select favorite skills from many people just from watching. 

Read once where Japanese sushi schools has it that they watch the chef cook for few years with out lecturing and they're off being experts. Hmmm!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;After indulging this kind of arrogant mischief for quite a while, it finally occurred to me that correcting others behavior presented a massive wall to trust, understanding, and peace. In essence, by correcting them (without their request to do so), I spoke “violently” (in the parlance of NVC).&#8221;</p>
<p>********After studying NVC twice &#8212; and  a few years of unsuccessful attempt to find buddies to practice NVC with in my own language (ASL)&#8212;most people I know refuse to indulge complex, lengthy new methods to improve communication rapport. I could feel myself forcing too hard and backed out fast with disappointment. How can I invite people to be more receptive? </p>
<p>My initial approach when I tried to educate people about NVC &#8212; they got very defensive &#8212; I couldn&#8217;t explain in just a few sentence of what the entire book presented. </p>
<p>To prove myself that I could still learn by myself although I was still awkward at it &#8212; little by little &#8212; I found out that NVC is literally all about listening almost! I&#8217;ve always been a great listener &#8212; what I noticed was that I was often a poor responder. Sometimes I was truly at loss of how to empathetically share a feedback without demeaning them. Touch is not enough and NVC does a great job of helping me stay attuned to others&#8217; feelings. I can now help people even find the right feelings for their situation. Before in HS I learned to parrot and that turned people off immediately. </p>
<p>NVC truly works even if the other person has no clue or interest about it. Takes a lot of focus and remembering though to STAY inside the mentality of NVC &#8212; and it was great seeing people&#8217;s face light up with wonderment of &#8220;Wow, you really understand me!&#8221; </p>
<p>I have successfully dealt with three individuals who could do nothing but verbally abuse me &#8212; one person was my mother and it was astonishing to see her literally change in front of my eyes over three weeks period of a time.  She actually softened up and invited instead of demanded me to do such and such and showed child-like eagerness and softness actually permeate in our  psyche.  I am convinced now this works if carefully applied. </p>
<p>The same happened to my brother - we almost terminated our sibling relationship during a very vehement argument - and suddenly I remembered to use NVC without appearing fakey-fake about it&#8230; and he, too, to my shock softened up. A few days later after thinking hard of over what I shared, he confessed things I never thought he&#8217;d say.  </p>
<p>Does it work every single time - I learned the hard way - no - found it horrifying when a very violent abusive person literally sucked the bones of NVC &#8212; and no matter how much I used appropriate NVC &#8212;didn&#8217;t do a thing. So, every case is different  &#8212;  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d love for society to learn LISTENING SKILLS more &#8212; something we all need to always strive to excel at and it&#8217;s a lifelong process.  </p>
<p>I love traveling in that if I am immersed in a community &#8212; I can gleefully select favorite skills from many people just from watching. </p>
<p>Read once where Japanese sushi schools has it that they watch the chef cook for few years with out lecturing and they&#8217;re off being experts. Hmmm!</p>
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		<title>By: Lightworker</title>
		<link>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24955</link>
		<dc:creator>Lightworker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24955</guid>
		<description>Your comments are really the answer to healing the environment. Inner environment is first. Without mindfully attending first to our inner environment, we really are not going to convince or benefit many others. Though we may attract followers and debaters, our energy becomes mostly consumed by our interactions with them (and our own ego), and our focus is scattered far and wide. We may also become a mirror of the annoyance of others who are not wanting to learn what we've learned.

But it is also very natural to become excited and childlike about a new-found and nearly magical tool that could change to world, so learning and talking about it is not necessarily a bad thing. But maybe our excitement should first be shared with the trees and the animals. A lot of communication is just reasoning and learning out loud. So maybe, if we need to do that, go where no one is listening! After a while, the learning will internalize, and our inner environment has healed and grown enough that we can truly act upon the learnings. Probably by talking (and writing) less!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your comments are really the answer to healing the environment. Inner environment is first. Without mindfully attending first to our inner environment, we really are not going to convince or benefit many others. Though we may attract followers and debaters, our energy becomes mostly consumed by our interactions with them (and our own ego), and our focus is scattered far and wide. We may also become a mirror of the annoyance of others who are not wanting to learn what we&#8217;ve learned.</p>
<p>But it is also very natural to become excited and childlike about a new-found and nearly magical tool that could change to world, so learning and talking about it is not necessarily a bad thing. But maybe our excitement should first be shared with the trees and the animals. A lot of communication is just reasoning and learning out loud. So maybe, if we need to do that, go where no one is listening! After a while, the learning will internalize, and our inner environment has healed and grown enough that we can truly act upon the learnings. Probably by talking (and writing) less!</p>
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		<title>By: Willem</title>
		<link>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24889</link>
		<dc:creator>Willem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 03:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24889</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What do you think about calling this another variation of “Show don’t tell?” &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Brilliant. I totally agree. And I mean it this time!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What do you think about calling this another variation of “Show don’t tell?” </p></blockquote>
<p>Brilliant. I totally agree. And I mean it this time!</p>
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		<title>By: timeLESS</title>
		<link>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24883</link>
		<dc:creator>timeLESS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24883</guid>
		<description>Awesome! sounds like how we each walk our own paths. The wisdoms i encounter become gifts to ME. Only I can walk on my path the way i do.  Good thing you point this out again. It makes me feel about myself in ways i forgot to somehow amidst all the noise. 

This ancient idea  you bring, comesright at a moment that these kindof  things act as a central issue in my life. 

What do you think  about calling this another variation of "Show don't tell?" 

Simon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome! sounds like how we each walk our own paths. The wisdoms i encounter become gifts to ME. Only I can walk on my path the way i do.  Good thing you point this out again. It makes me feel about myself in ways i forgot to somehow amidst all the noise. </p>
<p>This ancient idea  you bring, comesright at a moment that these kindof  things act as a central issue in my life. </p>
<p>What do you think  about calling this another variation of &#8220;Show don&#8217;t tell?&#8221; </p>
<p>Simon</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24874</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24874</guid>
		<description>It's been my experience in community that any group of people that gather around certain commonly held values tend to impose those same values on each other, not to mention "outsiders."  Kind of an interesting dynamic.  The whole problem is that this only works positively when there is utmost integrity both in self and in relationships, but most of us are rarely so enlightened!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been my experience in community that any group of people that gather around certain commonly held values tend to impose those same values on each other, not to mention &#8220;outsiders.&#8221;  Kind of an interesting dynamic.  The whole problem is that this only works positively when there is utmost integrity both in self and in relationships, but most of us are rarely so enlightened!</p>
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		<title>By: Abdallah B. Stickley</title>
		<link>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24871</link>
		<dc:creator>Abdallah B. Stickley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.mythic-cartography.org/2009/06/04/you-go-first/#comment-24871</guid>
		<description>Willem, this is awesome.  Sort of like "learn to do something simple but do it well."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Willem, this is awesome.  Sort of like &#8220;learn to do something simple but do it well.&#8221;</p>
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